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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3799 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2006 :  13:46:30  Show Profile
From the "Theatrical Release" information on the Amazon website for the upcoming first season DVDs:

Locations: Bronson Canyon, Griffith Park - 4730 Crystal Springs Drive, Los Angeles, California, USA| California, USA| Iverson Ranch, Chatsworth, Los Angeles, California, USA| Republic Studios/CBS Studio Center - 4024 Radford Ave., Studio City, Los Angeles, California, USA| Vasquez Rocks Natural Area Park - 10700 W. Escondido Canyon Rd., Agua Dulce, California, USA

Could someone who lives in California or knows its geography better than this tenderfoot help the rest of us in spotting these locations in the series? Though never having visited any of them, some I've learned from this site or other sources. For instance, Republic Studios/CBS Studio center, on Radford Avenue, was homebase for filming the series' interiors (the train, the various drawing rooms, and so forth) and a few exteriors: the Gilligan's Island lagoon for "The Night of the Bottomless Pit" and "The Falcon" (reportedly drained for the dynamiting of Tonca Flats). Bronson Canyon gave us the cave for "The Returning Dead" and (I think) for "The Plague." The terrain over which West scurried in Act I of "Jack O'Diamonds" looks like period descriptions of Vasquez Rocks, where the original Star Trek filmed a few of its episodes. Trek also used the Iverson ranch (for "This Side of Paradise," I believe), but I can't pinpoint the West episodes that used Iverson for exteriors.

Are there any real estate experts on this site that can help the rest of us out?

CLL
SS 1st assignment - desk job

288 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2006 :  19:29:02  Show Profile
I do know that many of the 'Wanderer' train shots used throughout the series were from a dead end spur rail line running from Romoland (near Hemet), California, to near the base of Mount San Jacinto (on the backside of Palm Springs, CA). These shots were done early on (TNOT Double-Edged Knife), and the tracks are being readied these days for future commuter rail service in Riverside County.
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2006 :  20:55:44  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
CLL beat me to mentioning this again. On my website I have a beauty shot of the Wanderer parked during the filming on the San Jacinto branch of the Sante Fe Railway. I have been researching for some time now the use of "Inyo" V&T Railroad No. 22, as well as Sierra Railroad No. 3-which was used on location for the pilot film made in Jamestown and Sonora California. I stumbled upon the following first-hand account of location filming with the train. To quote from Stephen Drew in his "Restoration Feasibility Investigation on Virginia and Truckee Locomotives Nos. 18 "Dayton and 22 "Inyo":

"Ninety years old, the V. & T. "Inyo" was last required under steam during June, July and August of 1965 as Nos. 8 and 22 on the Santa Fe railway around Menifee, California, for the four season CBS television series "The Wild Wild West". 40 year Santa Fe veteran William B. Garner of San Bernardino was on hand when his long-time friend Art Harris, a retired A.T.& S.F. air brake supervisor, operated the "Inyo" and its two car V & T train for the CBS cameras.

"When V&T 22 went to Menifee, it came in here (San Bernardino) on the U.P. on a flat car. The Santa Fe unloaded it in the shops and took it to Menifee in a local freight...
Out at Menifee, where it was kept for several months, it is wide open country, with only a siding and station name sign, plus some kind of old warehouse foundation as I remembered it. While it was out there, CBS kept a guard on duty all the time and he lived in a house trailer they had parked near the right-of-way. Two men alternated, both being ex-Los Angeles policemen. While my friend Art Harris was hired to run the engine for the movie, each time it was run, the Santa Fe had to furnish a complete train crew of engineer, fireman, conductor and brakeman. Art would run the engine, though, and the engineer would fire her, while the fireman who was usually a diesel only man would just be along for the ride. Many of the nightime shots were made in broad daylight and shot through filters.


The bulk of this location shooting was used for the episode "TNOT Double-Edged Knife", with its train robbery sequence and the wonderful scene of Tennyson off-loading Artemus' horse with West and Artie on the rear platform of "Wanderer". Notice that the name of the location was Menifee- the same name as the rail town in the episode! Many other shots of the train at speed, parked on a siding, as well as West riding to and from the train were used as stock shots throughout the 4 years of the series.

Shots from the location filming of Sierra Railroad No. 3 at Jamestown, California for the pilot were also used throughout the series run.

One of my great memories was to have been able to climb abaord the cab of "Inyo" where it is now on display in the Nevada State Railroad Museum in Carson, City Nevada and get to ring her bell!

If you haven't already check mywebpage out for more pictures and details.
[urll]http://hometown.aol.com/depot88/newindex.htm[/url]
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2006 :  20:57:47  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
I'll try typing the url again:

http://hometown.aol.com/depot88/newindex.html
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CLL
SS 1st assignment - desk job

288 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2006 :  10:41:46  Show Profile
Orrin - That's great research and sharing with the quotes from on-hand train operators in Menifee! Thanks for taking the time to share that wonderful and detailed info, and for your great website with photos too. I've been to most of the other WWW locations to pay homage mentioned above (in the early 1970's), but have long since lived far from So. California and am also perplexed by the Iverson Ranch location listing on Amazon. I second the motion on a call for any Iverson Ranch (and any other location shoot info).
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2006 :  11:36:19  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
Thanks CLL: I enjoy sharing what i've uncovered over the years. There is other stuff I need to take the time to include on the webpage, someday. A few of the photos I have posted were taken on my visit to the Sierra Railroad at Jamestown,California in the late seventies, the location where portions of the pilot episode was filmed. I was able to visit the roundhouse there and walk around Sierra No. 3 and take picures of it and the cars used for "Wanderer" in the pilot. I also walked around the station platform where Artemus was posing as the drunk soldier as West was being brought in as the "renengade headed for the gallows".
Interestingly, the Amazon site does not list Jameston or Sonora as locations.
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CLL
SS 1st assignment - desk job

288 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2006 :  12:07:11  Show Profile
Where/what is the Sonora location? I'm not aware of that one or when it was used. I hope to get to both the Nevada Museum and Jamestown next year - I wonder if the platform you mention is still there (you never know!). I would greatly appreciate any other material you could post to your website - that would be wonderful to see.
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2006 :  12:23:23  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
Sonora, California is also a town also on the Sierra Railroad. Filming was shot both at the station in Jamestown and along the RR line with No. 3. Larry Jensen has a few photos from the filming in his great book "The Movie Railroads" which is a very comprehensive look into the history of movies shot on railroads in America.
When I visited Jamestown, they also had Virginia & Truckee Express Car No. 21 which portrayed the Lab/Stable Car when V&T No. 22 "Inyo" ran before the cameras at Menifee. I have a shot of it and Coach car No. 4 which played the Varnish Car on my page. The Sierra RR also had a great display of "makeup" items they have added to their engines to dress them up for movie and TV filming: old smokestacks, and such as well as a variety of station signs to dress their depots- unfortunately I did not see the "Difficult Run, Virginia" sign from TNOT Inferno. As has been mentioned on the site, Sierra No. 3 now lays in pieces awaiting funds to complete a restoration to get it back in operation. There is a listing of where contributions can be made towards this fund.
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CLL
SS 1st assignment - desk job

288 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2006 :  10:42:10  Show Profile
Orrin - Was the station platform where Arte performed in the pilot near the old roundhouse in Jamestown, or further up the line in Sonora? I'm planning a trip to the Sacramento museum and surrounding area and would love to see that if it's still there.
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2006 :  11:03:47  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
CLL: The station platform used was the depot at Jamestown next to the roundhouse This used to be the freight station until the passenger depot next to it burned down in the 1970s. Another daytime shot of the train parked in front of this station was used in TNOT Big Blast. Just down the tracks from the station is the big water tank used as the Shady Rest Hotel location in "Petticoat Junction", although I believe it has been rebuilt since then.
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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3799 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2006 :  15:25:41  Show Profile
Gentlemen: Three other train–related questions:

1. Did they take at least Coach Car #4 (the varnish exterior) back out on location somewhere for selected shots in "The Iron Fist": in, for example, the opening of Act II, when the heavies push "the bodies" off the platform as the rear of the train moves out of frame?

2. Was the establishing exterior shot for the teaser of "The Diva" (the train pulling into "New Orleans") clipped from a movie of the era?

3. Why, especially in Seasons 3 and 4, did the producers apparently double-print stock shots of the engine's exterior, such that the smoke from the stack is not pouring out smoothly? It seems odd that they would not have shot enough footage for such short scenes, usually placed under the episode titles (e.g., "The Juggernaut,' "The Sedgewick Curse").
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2006 :  19:22:56  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
ccb: The studio built a mockup exterior of the varnish car to use on the backlot Western Street at Studio City that was used prominently in scenes in TNOT Iron Fist. There was a small length of track there that ran from the depot set with a siding. This was used in a few other shots in the series.
-The establishing shot at the beginning of TNOT Diva is taken from the Kirk Douglass movie "Last Train from Gun Hill", which used V&T 22 Inyo and a few cars on Paramount Studio's backlot town set.
-I, too, have noticed the process shot effect that they seem to add smoke coming from the stack when the engine is standing still. Maybe, since a well-fired engine normally doesn't spout alot of smoke out of the stack, they decided to add more in post-production. Actually, movie crews were notorious in demanding alot of black smoke pouring from locomotives while filming. The engine fireman would fiddle with the oil mixture going into the firebox to burn more inefficiently and produce those black clouds the directors loved. ("Inyo" and Sierra No. 3 were both converted years before from wood and coal burners to using fuel oil)
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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3799 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2006 :  21:03:02  Show Profile
Many thanks for the answers, orrin. Yet another question: What is the pineywood location of the exterior shot of the #22 Inyo slowing to a stop, at the start of the teaser of "The Man-Eating House" and under the episode titles of "The Deadly Blossom"?
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2006 :  05:47:25  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ccb

Many thanks for the answers, orrin. Yet another question: What is the pineywood location of the exterior shot of the #22 Inyo slowing to a stop, at the start of the teaser of "The Man-Eating House" and under the episode titles of "The Deadly Blossom"?



I'm trying to remember exactly the scenes you mention. Without going back and looking through my old tapes, I believe these are still from the original location shooting the summer of 1965 on the San Jacinto Branch. The great shot of the Wanderer passing the camera at speed and the scene of Artemus riding off in TNOT Doubleedged Knife were shot along a tree line, as well as a few others that cropped up once ot twice in the life of the series.
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CLL
SS 1st assignment - desk job

288 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2006 :  19:40:51  Show Profile
Orrin -- There appears to be a difference between your webpage photo of the varnish car in Jamestown vs. the car depicted on the TV Guide UP flatbed being transported to Menifee. Your photo shows 13 windows and the TV Guide shot shows 15! Have you accounted somehow for this difference in your examination? Remember, such authenticities, details, and minutia’s are what makes the world go round! Just wondering.
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2006 :  15:22:26  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
CLL: The photo of the Varnish Car in Jamestown is Sierra RR Coach No. 2 used for the pilot episode train, headed up by Sierra No. 3. The TV Guide photo shows V&T No. 22 Inyo and Express Car 21 and Coach 4 loaded up to travel to the location shoot at Menifee,California for the series in the summer of 1965. And yes, they are two different lengths of cars with different window arrangements.
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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3799 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2006 :  19:09:51  Show Profile
This is such a cool topic; I can't leave it alone. The train was practically another starring character throughout the series, alongside Conrad and Martin.

Orrin: Do you know who made up the crew that shot all those exteriors in that glorious summer of '65? I'm interested both in the train crew, including Messrs Garner and Harris, to whom you refer above, but also the camera crew. Was Ted Voigtlander, then West's cinematographer, on the scene? This, I'm guessing, would have been when Collier Young's production crew was at work—or was he already fired and replaced by Fred Freiberger? In other words, do you know who in the front office was on location as they were shooting?

Were all of the shots used throughout the series as stock footage shot in that one summer? It's interesting to me that we saw some shots repeatedly; others, only once in a single episode. A good example of the latter is the beautiful shot of the engine billowing both black and white smoke as it plows toward the camera through a beautiully lit forest in Act I of "The Torture Chamber" (en route to Governor Bradford's unnamed State Capitol).

It also intrigues me that some exteriors of the train, used in the first (monochrome) season, were obviously shot with color film, looking ahead to the day when the series might go to color. Example: The squarely framed shot of the dead rear of the varnish, receding from the camera, first used to conclude "The Double-Edged Knife" but later recycled to end both "The Golden Cobra" and "The Green Terror."

Were the night scenes of West leaving and arriving at the stable car (respectively, "The Doomsday Formula" [teaser] and "The Feather Fury" [Act I]) filmed with colored filters or were they somehow tinted after shooting? You can tell they were shot in the first season, because in both cases Conrad is wearing his gray costume, which was used only rarely after the first season.
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orrin cobb
SS novice field agent

USA
959 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  10:28:01  Show Profile  Visit orrin cobb's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ccb

This is such a cool topic; I can't leave it alone. The train was practically another starring character throughout the series, alongside Conrad and Martin.

Orrin: Do you know who made up the crew that shot all those exteriors in that glorious summer of '65? I'm interested both in the train crew, including Messrs Garner and Harris, to whom you refer above, but also the camera crew. Was Ted Voigtlander, then West's cinematographer, on the scene? This, I'm guessing, would have been when Collier Young's production crew was at work—or was he already fired and replaced by Fred Freiberger? In other words, do you know who in the front office was on location as they were shooting?

Were all of the shots used throughout the series as stock footage shot in that one summer? It's interesting to me that we saw some shots repeatedly; others, only once in a single episode. A good example of the latter is the beautiful shot of the engine billowing both black and white smoke as it plows toward the camera through a beautiully lit forest in Act I of "The Torture Chamber" (en route to Governor Bradford's unnamed State Capitol).

It also intrigues me that some exteriors of the train, used in the first (monochrome) season, were obviously shot with color film, looking ahead to the day when the series might go to color. Example: The squarely framed shot of the dead rear of the varnish, receding from the camera, first used to conclude "The Double-Edged Knife" but later recycled to end both "The Golden Cobra" and "The Green Terror."

Were the night scenes of West leaving and arriving at the stable car (respectively, "The Doomsday Formula" [teaser] and "The Feather Fury" [Act I]) filmed with colored filters or were they somehow tinted after shooting? You can tell they were shot in the first season, because in both cases Conrad is wearing his gray costume, which was used only rarely after the first season.



ccb: Indeed, as Danny Biederman wrote in his book, the train should have been credited as the third star of the series. Rarely was there a "home base" location on a tv series that achieved its own persona, which obviously attracted me from the start of the series. And it is evident that the creators of the show felt the same way. Just who it was- Michael Garrison himself, or Ethel Winant or Gil Ralston- that came up with the idea of this rolling headquarters for James West and its stock of hidden devices and booby-traps certainly enjoyed themselves. And no one more than Al Heschong himself, in designing "Wanderer". His private train sets are certainly the most authentic of all that came out of Hollywood.

I don't have any other information in regards to who else made up the crew for the summer of 1965 filming and exactly how many sessions were shot there on that location during June, July and August.. If anyone uncovers the daily call sheeets from this era this could be answered. Certainly both first and second units of photography might have been there for shooting scenes from TNOT Double-Edged Knife because most of the principles were there for primary scenes: the attack on the gold train, the off-loading of Artemus' horse and the departure of the train for example. And then there is one of my favorite scenes from the beginning of TNOT Deadly Bed with West riding up to the tracks as the "Wanderer' pulls in- the only time that shot was used in the series.

Through the four year run of WWW there were a variety of stock shots used and not just from the summer of 65 shooting. Shots from the December 1964 location filming in Jamestown, Cal for the pilot were recycled many times. As I mentioned with TNOT Diva, a shot of No. 22 from a previous film was used. The same for the shot you mention from TNOT Torture Chamber. This came from another Western shot in the 1950s I believe. Also shots of Sierra Railroad No. 3 were used, such as when they were combined in the same episode as TNOT Iron Fist. Interestingly, some of the shots of Sierra No.3 used in this episode I have never seen bfore, so WWW may have shot some additional scenes there. At that time period No. 3 was busy with many TV series, starring as the Hooterville Cannonball in "Petticoat Junction" as well as "Iron Horse", with appearances in "Big Valley", "Cimmaron Strip", "Bonanza" and "Gunsmoke" to name a few.

And shots from WWW were also borrowed for an episode of "Gunsmoke" when there is a deadly plague aboard a train. I haven't seen this episode for years but it featured both the Varnish Car and the Lab/Stable car in exterior shots, culminating with the burning of the Lab/Stable Car. The last shot must have been an additional shot of the car done for "Gunsmoke' or some kind of process shot. I have been trying to get more information on that. And then there is the episode of "Get Smart' where they borrowed the interior set of the Varnish Car for a "Prisoner of Zenda' take-off.

I agree that it seems that some first season shots were filmed in color anticipating the switch as you see exactly the same shot in both black and white and color. And all the sources I have found state that the summer of 1965 filming with No. 22 Inyo was the last time it appeared under steam until it was purchased by the stae of Nevada and restored in the late 1980s.

Some scenes were filmed with filters to evoke a nightime or dusk scene with the train's windows and marker lamps lit. I have been told this from a number of sources. One of these sources came from an anonymous e-mail from some one who seemed to have knowledge of the summer of 65 filming, but who never replied back to me on my request. if I could only track tha guy down!

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