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couldron
SS novice field agent

1444 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2003 :  11:41:39  Show Profile

This episode is interesting for many reasons. The story has a strong adversary General Grimm (Martin Landau) who wishes to establish a superior nation. Ccb can correct me but I do not believe that there was much of a problem if any with paramilitary groups at the time of the production of this episode. I do not remember of hearing of groups like that until the 80’s. So I find it fascinating that WWW would present something that would manifest later in our history. Grimm is true to his name as we see in his treatment of Jack Talbot (Ted Markland) and like all madmen, his ego finally gets the better of him.
I was surprised to find that elevators existed at this time although not the way they present it in the story. Listen to the song they sing at the party “Little Brown Jug”. It is a folk song and they look like they really are enjoying singing it. It is also a name of a race began in Delaware, Ohio in 1946. Little Brown Jugs were made as souvenirs by E & LP Norton Co. and Edward Norton & Co. in Bennington Vermont between 1876 and 1893. Many were commemorative pieces for specific historic events. Most Little Brown Jugs are simply marked Little Brown Jug.

The opening finds Jim meeting with Senator Rawls (Nelson Olmsted). The Senator asks Jim for help for what seems to be a family problem. He wants Jim to give some prospective to his niece who is thrown over by her fiancée but he tells Jim to listen to her story which although sounds fantastic may be true. Attacked by men in the elevator, proves the truth of her story to Jim. Why did that elevator door stay open? He is saved by the screams of the Senator’s niece Lola Bracer ( Toian Matchinga). Does anyone else feel that Toian is making the most of her only scene? I do enjoy watching her performance. Others must have to because she returns in “The Night of the Spanish Curse" and "The Night of the Legion of Death". She does not impress me as much in these episodes. Lola gives Jim a letter that sends the two agents to Mars Nevada the perfect place for a honeymoon. The exchanges between Artie and Jim is engaging. What if Jim does not come back or Artie gets bored? Arties quip that he is glad Jim is a fair shot is cute. Artie does not have much to do in this episode except to wait for Jim to tell him when he is needed. When he is present it is a delight. Throughout the series, Jim introduces Artie in various ways. This episode he calls him his associate. His Colonel Cross is RM at his best and the interaction between Artie and Jim is warm. Ok the idea of splitting a bullet in two is fantastically unreal but I loved it. I think it works partially because of the expression on Grimm’s face who already knows that Jim is an agent.

There are plenty of women as there is equality in this military operation. I have already mentioned Lola but she is not the only one that has interest in her fiancé Jack Talbot. There is also Jenny (Shary Marshall). She is not able to help Jack but she does manage to get word to Artie. At the train, she cleverly tells Artie that West has sent her. Then there is Sgt. Must (Joan Huntington) who also in the “Circus of Death” and the “Bottomless Pit”. She tends to overact too. Her eye makeup is a little heavy. She doe convince me that she could be in command.
The execution scene is interesting because James rolls his own cigarette of course he does so in order to escape. This is one of the few times that it is so obvious that RC has a stunt double. My husband wanted to know how he got on top of that building so quickly. He knows to be quiet when I give him that look!
We have another dropped line. In the tag, Jim tells Artie, after Artie says how sore he is, that why not you covered 47 miles… the rest is dropped. RC’s head is down so you can not even lip-read.
O.K. Before anyone jumps on the obvious chauvinism. It was meant to be Obvious. The audience was suppose to understand that they were in on a joke and laugh which I do. I do not like the implication that women may dabble in important subjects but when it comes right down to it, all they care about is how they look. Over all this a good episode.

couldron
SS novice field agent

1444 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2003 :  10:07:54  Show Profile
Where is everyone

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n/a
deleted

101 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2003 :  14:02:57  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by couldron

Where is everyone





couldron:

I haven't seen this one in so long, I can't think of anything intelligent to add!!



"Things Artemus, are not always what they appear to be."
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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3908 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2003 :  18:09:10  Show Profile
couldron: Where is everyone?

Patience, Mary. Quality takes time. Besides, this has been Back-to-School Week for me, the most hellacious I can ever remember.

Only by a thread did I keep my promise to restart WQ on Wednesday—and even then I blew it by misreporting the series' premier anniversary (17 September 1965).
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n/a
deleted

243 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2003 :  18:41:12  Show Profile
quote:
Where is everyone




I'm not posting because I don't have many eps and remember only a few, but I always read these review threads because they are really wonderful, enjoyable and a great treasure!
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Elaine
SS 1st assignment - desk job

356 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2003 :  20:47:46  Show Profile
When I "rediscovered" WWW this past year, one of the first episodes I saw was this one. I was thrilled to see Martin Landau as the guest villain, as he has always been a favorite of mine ever since his days on Mission Impossible. I did think, though, that this ep could have been called TNOT Wild-Eyed Madman given Landau's expression in many of his scenes.

Regarding Landau, I remembered something I saw on MTV. The following comes from an article about references in pop culture:
It’s hard, admittedly, for adults to resist the urge to berate younger people for their ignorance, even if it’s over a reference to pop culture. The MTV VJ Kennedy, on a retrospective program on that channel, cited Martin Landau as her worst interview: When, at the 1996 Hollywood premiere of Mission: Impossible, she innocently asked what the aged actor was doing there, he replied that, well, of course, he was in the original TV show -- but not only did Kennedy not know Landau was in the TV show Mission: Impossible, she didn’t know Mission: Impossible had been a TV show. She made the mistake of blurting this out to Landau, who responded with an ugly, verbal dressing-down right there on the spot.

Maybe the problem is with MTV. Consider the story (probably apocryphal) about MTV correspondent Tabitha Soren, covering President Bill Clinton: When Clinton, an amateur saxophone player, referred in a press conference to Theolonius Monk, Soren allegedly turned to an older reporter next to her and asked, “Who’s the loneliest monk?”

Hilarious, right?

Granted, one can hardly chock up Kennedy’s ignorance to her youth: Mission: Impossible was revived for network TV in 1988 (when Kennedy was 16), and the show ran for two years. Blame, perhaps, Kennedy’s poor research skills -- a furious Landau certainly did -- but it’s scarcely reflective of intelligence for a young Oregonian woman who grew up wanting to be an orthodontist not to know who starred in a TV espionage drama. Kennedy, like other TV talking heads, relies on a staff to supply her with such knowledge.

The fact is that if no one tells “these kids today” who Theolonius Monk is, or who came first, Shakespeare or Bogart, or even that anything existed before the year they were born, the kids will have no way of knowing and should not be blamed for not knowing -- any more than I, at 34, should be blamed for not having intimate knowledge of the lyrics of Linkin Park.


For the entire article go to:
http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/printerfriendly/2002-04-18-cannibalculture.shtml

Imagine what VJ Kennedy thinks of when she hears The Wild Wild West!
Shudder.


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n/a
deleted

101 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  06:02:10  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Elaine



The fact is that if no one tells “these kids today” who Theolonius Monk is, or who came first, Shakespeare or Bogart, or even that anything existed before the year they were born, the kids will have no way of knowing and should not be blamed for not knowing -- any more than I, at 34, should be blamed for not having intimate knowledge of the lyrics of Linkin Park.





I disagree quite a lot with this statement. Why should kids be told? Frankly, I think it's incumbent upon younger generations to do some of the work in learning what has come before them. Yes, public school education includes history, but it's up to the students to learn[/i] it. I don't think it's any different with culture. I have to keep abreast with the 20-somethings on their music, tv shows and the like in order to be able to converse with them on that level; however, I see more and more the idea that the priviledged generation coming up shouldn't have to work for much of anything. Many of them expect to have high-level positions right out of college; if they don't get a joke (because they don't understand the cultural reference) then there's something wrong with the joke, and not their ignorance.

I think it's shameful that a reporter covering a movie didn't bother to check into the history at all. Yes, staff is easy to blame, but should a writer blame the research staff because his speech has the wrong percentages in it? He should double check them himself. It's too easy today to check facts, and imnsho, many people young and old are getting lazy! Kudos to Martin Landau for dressing the reporter down. Maybe she learned from it and will take the time to be more prepared next time.

Looks like I'm turning into an old coot!! haha!




"Things Artemus, are not always what they appear to be."
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Elaine
SS 1st assignment - desk job

356 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  07:22:14  Show Profile
quote:
Maybe she learned from it and will take the time to be more prepared next time.



The sad part is that I don't think she did learn anything from it. I remembered this mainly because when I saw her on TV recalling this incident she gave every indication that she thought it was Landau who was the problem. She had no clue as to why she should know anything about him or the original Mission Impossible. He was her worst interview because he rebuked her on TV (and her tone indicated "who does he think he is?") not because she embarassed herself by her own lack of knowledge or preparedness. At the time, I remember wanting to stangle her.
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K Mills
SS novice field agent

849 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  10:07:35  Show Profile
I think I'll stay out of the discussion above. <g> I liked this episode quite a bit and watch it frequently. Martin Landau is the perfect wacko. I also enjoyed Ross Martin playing the bored, dissatisfied secret service agent left on the train to rot while his partner gallops off to adventure. Parts of this episode really stick out, the drowning dunking scene is pretty ick and I don't let my girls watch it. The fight scene in the trailer is a good one. Conrad looks angry! Oh, oh, when RC is issued a black Russian looking hat and looks down at it like, I'm not putting this on my perfect hair! That always cracks me up. Artemus as Colonel Cross obviously. But, I liked the office scene. The last pit fighting scene is fun and the poofy black shirt is so, well, cute. Good episode and I give it
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n/a
deleted

243 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  11:07:45  Show Profile
How many WWW eps was Landau in?
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couldron
SS novice field agent

1444 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  12:42:15  Show Profile
quote:
How many WWW eps was Landau in?

Only this one

quote:
Oh, oh, when RC is issued a black Russian looking hat and looks down at it like, I'm not putting this on my perfect hair!

Oh! That was good and you interpretedit so well.
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AdorableBlue
SS novice field agent

948 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  17:52:24  Show Profile  Visit AdorableBlue's Homepage
quote:
Where is everyone
Duh! My monitor gave up on me!!!!! I can *hear* ya but I can't see ya!

One of the eps I like (well, almost all of Season 1 I like anyway) and the opening fight scene in the lift was a good one. RC's attire in this eps - yummmmmy!!!!!! Really makes him more dashing! (see? that's why I couldn't post!) And his *advances* in Sgt Musk office.....ooooooh! No, no, family bod......

One scene that amazed me most was when Jim had to split that bullet on the axe - that scene tells a lot. The coolness of Artie in holding that axe and his confidence in knowing his partner will not fail to hit the target. And it does show Jim is a very good shooter. (other than in Freebooters). But at the back of my mind, Artie really took that chance, huh? What if Gen. Grimm had asked someone else to do the shooting?

I liked Martin Landau from Space 1999 days and was surprised indeed to see him here. Then again, I am surprised to see lots of others - like Richard Anderson (Oscar of 6 mil-dollar man!).

This eps?

AdorableBlue
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Redhead1617
SS novice field agent

USA
1393 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2003 :  18:06:47  Show Profile  Visit Redhead1617's Homepage
That axe scene Blue mentioned really blew me away ( no pun intended!!!) That must have been my fav scene in this ep, 2nd fav-Sgt Musk ordering Jim to have a good time 3rd fav scene- K mentioned Artie as the bored SS agent

Also notable scenes as K has mentioned:
quote:
Oh, oh, when RC is issued a black Russian looking hat and looks down at it like, I'm not putting this on my perfect hair! That always cracks me up.


As for Colonel Cross
girl- "Well I've never kissed a colonel before"
Artie- "Well I've never kissed a soldier before"



*sigh...where's MY Ross Martin?
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JimPhelps
SS 1st assignment - desk job

USA
417 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2003 :  13:03:32  Show Profile
I did happen to catch Kennedy’s gaffe with Martin Landau. What I though was most outrageous was her attitude. She was not contrite at all and instead defended her ignorance saying, “I’m waiting for a real star like Tom Cruise.” Obviously, she has no place in broadcasting (as do many of her peers) because like so many out there now in the infotainment field she has absolutely no knowledge of anything that has happened before 1970. (Perhaps the JFK assassination, but that’s it). And the worst part about it is that they don’t care to know, they have no curiosity. I’ll bet you that Kennedy has never seen WWW, I Spy, The Prisoner, et cetera, she wouldn’t even be able to tell you the shows names, and yet everyday in television and movies I see influences from M:I to WWW all the time, those shows helped to define the modern action-adventure genre.

I will have a review of this episode up with a day or so, I have been writing and editing it over the weekend I have a lot to say on this one.


PS: I was 13 when M:I was revived on ABC for two seasons and I was introduced to the show. Kennedy’s age is no excuse.

quote:
Originally posted by Elaine

When I "rediscovered" WWW this past year, one of the first episodes I saw was this one. I was thrilled to see Martin Landau as the guest villain, as he has always been a favorite of mine ever since his days on Mission Impossible. I did think, though, that this ep could have been called TNOT Wild-Eyed Madman given Landau's expression in many of his scenes.

Regarding Landau, I remembered something I saw on MTV. The following comes from an article about references in pop culture:
It’s hard, admittedly, for adults to resist the urge to berate younger people for their ignorance, even if it’s over a reference to pop culture. The MTV VJ Kennedy, on a retrospective program on that channel, cited Martin Landau as her worst interview: When, at the 1996 Hollywood premiere of Mission: Impossible, she innocently asked what the aged actor was doing there, he replied that, well, of course, he was in the original TV show -- but not only did Kennedy not know Landau was in the TV show Mission: Impossible, she didn’t know Mission: Impossible had been a TV show. She made the mistake of blurting this out to Landau, who responded with an ugly, verbal dressing-down right there on the spot.

Maybe the problem is with MTV. Consider the story (probably apocryphal) about MTV correspondent Tabitha Soren, covering President Bill Clinton: When Clinton, an amateur saxophone player, referred in a press conference to Theolonius Monk, Soren allegedly turned to an older reporter next to her and asked, “Who’s the loneliest monk?”

Hilarious, right?

Granted, one can hardly chock up Kennedy’s ignorance to her youth: Mission: Impossible was revived for network TV in 1988 (when Kennedy was 16), and the show ran for two years. Blame, perhaps, Kennedy’s poor research skills -- a furious Landau certainly did -- but it’s scarcely reflective of intelligence for a young Oregonian woman who grew up wanting to be an orthodontist not to know who starred in a TV espionage drama. Kennedy, like other TV talking heads, relies on a staff to supply her with such knowledge.

The fact is that if no one tells “these kids today” who Theolonius Monk is, or who came first, Shakespeare or Bogart, or even that anything existed before the year they were born, the kids will have no way of knowing and should not be blamed for not knowing -- any more than I, at 34, should be blamed for not having intimate knowledge of the lyrics of Linkin Park.


For the entire article go to:
http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/printerfriendly/2002-04-18-cannibalculture.shtml

Imagine what VJ Kennedy thinks of when she hears The Wild Wild West!
Shudder.






Mr. Phelps
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n/a
deleted

72 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2003 :  14:23:47  Show Profile
I'm 100% with Mike, and Jim, on the MTV interview fiasco. There's no way that younger people can or should have the blame for lack of historical knowledge shifted from them to others. Especially in a field that you are making a living off of. There is no excuse - period!!!

I'm only 38, and was either not born, or only a baby, when all my favorite television shows were on the air. And no one in my family guided me into any of these shows. I found them for myself on tv, and when I got old enough, I did my own research (thru the library or asking older adults) about these shows.

Gary
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JimPhelps
SS 1st assignment - desk job

USA
417 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2003 :  18:07:25  Show Profile
100% with Gary here. Aside from the original Star Trek, (which my mother loves) I received no guidance from any adult as far as classic television shows are concerned. When I was about 11 a friend of mine (same age), who knew I was a big Bond fan, told me to watch this show on my UHF station called “The Wild Wild West”, he claimed I would love it. I was dubious at first, (I told him at the time I don’t like westerns) but I am obviously a convert. If people such as the so called “Kennedy” had a true interest in the history of the medium they desire so desperately to work in they would know the significance of Martin Landau’s contribution. But, unfortunately they don’t, I can understand Mr. Landau’s anger, and I loved it when he asked: “Don’t you do any research?”
Obviously, as far as Kennedy is concerned the answer is no.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary

I'm 100% with Mike, and Jim, on the MTV interview fiasco. There's no way that younger people can or should have the blame for lack of historical knowledge shifted from them to others. Especially in a field that you are making a living off of. There is no excuse - period!!!

I'm only 38, and was either not born, or only a baby, when all my favorite television shows were on the air. And no one in my family guided me into any of these shows. I found them for myself on tv, and when I got old enough, I did my own research (thru the library or asking older adults) about these shows.

Gary



Mr. Phelps
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couldron
SS novice field agent

1444 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2003 :  18:18:31  Show Profile
We better tell Kennedy to skip next weeks TV Guide's crossword puzzle.
These were some of the Down
8. The Eve____Show
20. Dan on Vegas
25. Patty and Cathy
27. ____Came Bronson
28. The____Patrol
31. The Munster' Pet
38. Gil on Rawhide
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ccb
SS Quizmaster Emeritus

3908 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2003 :  22:13:58  Show Profile
My life continues to be Adventures in Chaos, so much so that I don't have time even on the sabbath for decent webcrawling. So my thoughts on this episode will have to be quick and dirty. No comment from me on the now infamous Landau interview on MTV: I think you've all pretty well sewn up that turkey.

If one factors out "The Casual Killer," whose premise is slightly different, "The Red-Eyed Madmen" is the first of several episodes in which West goes undercover in an enemy's stronghold. For my money, it's one of the better of that subgenre, maybe the best. This subvesrive military academy means business, and I find the premise a lot more frightening now—when it seems more realistic—than when the show first aired in 1965. The fight scenes, especially the ones in the wood-panneled arena, are very well done (even though the double for Landau in the last one doesn't look a thing like him). Artemus provides his customary cool, comic relief in an otherwise fairly grimm episode (pun intended). Too bad this was Stanford Whitmore's only script for the series: It has a straightforward quality of genuine jeopardy that I appreciate. But this episode's saving grace is surely Martin Landau: a wonderful actor, who plays madness with real conviction, not over-the-top. His eyes, his grin, his chuckle: I can believe he's crazier than bat guano, and a lot more repulsive.

Nice touches: The repartée between the agents is getting better ("Just the place for a honeymoon."/"There's no such girl.") The trident locking down the foot of West's contestant, without amputating it. (Ooh.) The rescue of poor, sweaty, red-eyed Jack, which backfires on West. Our introduction to the dangerous pistols in the varnish car, which we won't see again until they mow down Silas Grigsby in "The Bubbling Death," two years later. That clenched-teeth, red-eyed ramrod, Colonel Cross. The agents' stunt with well-aimed pistol and axe: utterly ridiculous but well staged and edited. (RM does a beautiful impression of somone scared spitless but can't show it.) Lots of shirtlessness for the ladies; trés chic satin tunics on the General's bosomy babes.

Downsides: It's pretty lucky for our side that mustachioed Otto opted not to knife our hero straight in the back before they even exited the hotel elevator (the teaser). It's also improbably neat that Mr. West—all decked out in his semi-formal attire!—could so easily talk his way into the Mars Military Academy ("Secrecy is our greatest weapon"): At least in similar episodes ("The Freebooters," "The Cadre"), there's some pretense involved in making West accessible to a tightly closed outfit. While charming and comic, the scene between Artemus and Sandy O'Brien is padding, which adds nothing to the plot that a throwaway line couldn't have solved. The stunt double who did the trick horseriding looks nothing like Conrad (Act IV), and since by this time Conrad was doing more of his own stunts, the sore thumb sticks out even more. The real end of Act IV, after the death of Grimm in the arena, is also a bit improbable, with everyone just giving up and going home. But maybe red eyes turn pink when the Big Secrets all get spilled. And there is, of course, the awful chauvinism of the tag, even if it is played for laughs. The fact that it's so blatantly ridiculous saves it, to my taste, from the real, unapologized-for McCoy, in "The Tycoons" (some years away).

Overall: A soldier for the truth gives this one
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JimPhelps
SS 1st assignment - desk job

USA
417 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2003 :  12:54:55  Show Profile
I apologize for the lateness of this review I have been rather busy the past few weeks but on we go…

TNOT Red-Eyed Madman

A personal favorite (I wonder why?). Unique, a great villain, and some progressive notions that seem to make it all the more relevant almost 40 years after filming. The idea that an armed fringe group could cause any kind of damage to the federal government (even the scaled down 19th century version of the federal government) must have seemed like a fantasy in the 1960’s, I hate to seem maudlin but I can’t watch this episode without thinking about the modern fringe militia movement that seemed to peak about a decade ago. I always find it interesting the themes that turn up in some of these “classic” shows, from a time when we were more “innocent”. I know that a show like West was produced under rigid time constraints, the writers and producers had no intention of being particularly visionary; I don’t think Michael Garrison was trying to make social commentary like Rod Serling or Gene Roddenberry. Garrison would probably be the first to say he was just trying to make an exciting escapist adventure; something to make the audience forget their troubles for an hour and enjoy a good yarn.

Enough philosophy, this is another fun hour with a lot of great gimmicks, a physically intimidating villain for Jim (Landau is perhaps a half-foot taller than RC), Artie uses his brain to get out of a tight spot, then gives us a gift as Colonel Cross.

It all starts off innocently enough when Jim responds to an urgent call from a US Senator, ostensibly he wants the agent to act as a kind of armchair psychologist, kindly explaining to her that fiancée Talbot has finally jilted her. Things are much deeper of course, it seems in the letter Talbot mailed to the senator’s niece that an organization exists which plans to overthrow the government in the west. Jim is quickly convinced of the danger when he’s attacked in the elevator. The fight comes like a jolt, we have just left the tranquil setting of the hotel lobby and the elevator doors open with the fight already in progress. They fail, of course, to kill Jim but the thugs get away.

Examining the postmark leads Jim and Artie to Mars, Nevada a lovely little stretch of nothing. True to form Jim goes in first (the direct approach) leaving poor Artie behind to read a good book. The madman of the episode is brilliantly introduced as General Grimm, torturing Talbot as a traitor for writing to his fiancée, by repeatedly lowering him into a tank of water until his answer (the only answer he has been giving) satisfies the sadistic General.

Martin Landau, had a busy year in the 1965 television season, he made guest appearances in most of my favorite spy shows not counting “West” there was I Spy (Danny Was A Million Laughs) and The Man From U.N.C.L.E. (The Bat-cave Affair). All three performances are distinctly different, although I prefer his General Grimm above all. Landau plays the proto-fascist with a wild look in his eyes. His statement to Jim that “strategy and tactics are nonsense” couldn’t be more insane! He’ll never win thinking like that but he’s sure to slaughter hundreds. Although, Grimm is a bit off center his view on women is quite progressive, Sgt. Musk in particular comes across as tough and competent. Others, like Jenny don’t seem to fit in. Why did she join?

One of my favorite scenes takes place aboard “The Wanderer” where we see Artie designing a machine gun; he (wisely) throws a cover on his work before answering the door and confronting Jenny and the trooper. I just love the way Artie gets out of that jam after the trooper pulls a gun on him.

Artie: Well, “them pistols” are pointed right at you.

The incredulous trooper finally realizes he’s outgunned (and he’s been outsmarted) and surrenders. This sets the stage for Artie’s entrance at Grimm’s military academy.

The famous Colonel Cross is another great character from RM. He effectively parodies Landau’s Grimm with his overzealous “true” patriot act. The bullet splitting sequence is over the top to be sure but it works and highlights the trust Jim and Artie must have in each other. Then there’s “Cross’s” wry remark that Pvt. West is a “fair” shot.

It’s all a lot of fun and it finally comes down to Jim versus the General. Once the general is defeated the revolution dries up.

As for the ending and Artie’s remarks, I don’t think it was meant to be demeaning in any way just ironic. Here we have a genius (Artie) master of disguise, inventor, scientist, but alas he’s still a 19th Century man in many ways. I think RM delivers the line with the right amount of irony; it gets a chuckle out of me.

The Commercial break art is average, mainly a series of close-ups. We do have a good photo of Landau and Jim, on opposing sides of the screen, the solider who can identify Jim (the actor’s name escapes me at the moment, but I’ve seen him in many television shows of the 60’s, too bad we have stock footage of the train to close out Act IV, it would have been nicer to freeze the image of Jim and Artie in the train’s dressing, that would be more common in the following seasons.

So the verdict, very good for the first season, I give it three prosthetic noses out of four.





Mr. Phelps
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Elaine
SS 1st assignment - desk job

356 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2003 :  15:16:38  Show Profile
I just wanted to thank Mary and all the reviewers for the interesting insights, especially ccb and Mr.P. I just love reading these!
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MonkeeMaven
SS 1st assignment - desk job

393 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2003 :  07:23:12  Show Profile  Visit MonkeeMaven's Homepage
quote:
Ccb can correct me but I do not believe that there was much of a problem if any with paramilitary groups at the time of the production of this episode. I do not remember of hearing of groups like that until the 80’s. So I find it fascinating that WWW would present something that would manifest later in our history.


Remind me to research this more - at a couple other boards I frequent I know some folks who'd know more about this.

quote:
I was surprised to find that elevators existed at this time although not the way they present it in the story.


Brief history of elevators - http://www.columbia-elevator.com/info/history.html

quote:
Attacked by men in the elevator, proves the truth of her story to Jim. Why did that elevator door stay open?


Why'd it stay open? It's like Star Trek's turbolifts. They have a "dramatic line sensor".

quote:
This is one of the few times that it is so obvious that RC has a stunt double.


*cries* No, no, it's a lie! It's not a stunt double! ;)

quote:
We have another dropped line. In the tag, Jim tells Artie, after Artie says how sore he is, that why not you covered 47 miles… the rest is dropped. RC’s head is down so you can not even lip-read.


Does anything show up on the closed captioning?

quote:
The audience was suppose to understand that they were in on a joke and laugh which I do. I do not like the implication that women may dabble in important subjects but when it comes right down to it, all they care about is how they look. Over all this a good episode.


Wait - we DO care about more than how we look?


I kid, really. But I don't mind the attitude against feminists which the show takes - when it comes down to it, my goal in life is to get married and stay home with however many kids my husband wants, and I'd rather watch a show which supports that than watch a show which would encourage me to try to juggle a carreer and a family.


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Frankly, I think it's incumbent upon younger generations to do some of the work in learning what has come before them. Yes, public school education includes history, but it's up to the students to learn it.


Exactly! And I dread to think of what a public school would claim is important. That, and there's this tendency we schoolkids have to hate something purely because we MUST learn it - when it's taken on by choice, it's much more enjoyable.

quote:
I think it's shameful that a reporter covering a movie didn't bother to check into the history at all. Yes, staff is easy to blame, but should a writer blame the research staff because his speech has the wrong percentages in it? He should double check them himself. It's too easy today to check facts, and imnsho, many people young and old are getting lazy! Kudos to Martin Landau for dressing the reporter down. Maybe she learned from it and will take the time to be more prepared next time.


I concur!!

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Looks like I'm turning into an old coot!! haha!


Congratulations! I look forward to being an old coot myself, though the entire aging thing doesn't look too appealing.



quote:
I received no guidance from any adult as far as classic television shows are concerned. When I was about 11 a friend of mine (same age), who knew I was a big Bond fan, told me to watch this show on my UHF station called “The Wild Wild West”, he claimed I would love it. I was dubious at first, (I told him at the time I don’t like westerns) but I am obviously a convert.


I started watching West on a whim - I was up particularly late one night, and it's what was on. A couple weeks later it moved to afternoons, and I watched it every day. I asked my mom if she ever watched it, and she said she'd only seen a handful of episodes because her father was a MAJOR westerns fan, but it was too fantasy for him.
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MonkeeMaven
SS 1st assignment - desk job

393 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2003 :  11:50:06  Show Profile  Visit MonkeeMaven's Homepage
JimPhelps said:

quote:
The idea that an armed fringe group could cause any kind of damage to the federal government (even the scaled down 19th century version of the federal government) must have seemed like a fantasy in the 1960’s, I hate to seem maudlin but I can’t watch this episode without thinking about the modern fringe militia movement that seemed to peak about a decade ago. I always find it interesting the themes that turn up in some of these “classic” shows, from a time when we were more “innocent”. I know that a show like West was produced under rigid time constraints, the writers and producers had no intention of being particularly visionary; I don’t think Michael Garrison was trying to make social commentary like Rod Serling or Gene Roddenberry. Garrison would probably be the first to say he was just trying to make an exciting escapist adventure; something to make the audience forget their troubles for an hour and enjoy a good yarn.


I can't add anything more to that... perfect as it is.

Back to the original question- this is what I was told:

quote:
the problem you'll have in looking for the Paramillitary groups in the earlier days is because they weren't tagged like that back then, back then they were just citizens preparing for the common defense a god given right.
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